Saturday, July 29, 2006

Chance or not

Writing down my thoughts yesterday did actually bring a degree of clarity to what is going round in my head right now, so I felt I ought to put it down in words, to sort of explain yesterdays post.

I was just reading some posts on a friends blog, (www.fromthesamesky.blogspot.com), and one of them spoke about her thoughts on suffering and the providence of God. She used this quote to help her thoughts:

“When one person gets cancer and another does not, that is not because God wants one of them to get cancer, it is because the world is fallen and not as God wanted it and chance has been at work. When Christians deny that luck plays any part, they are often implicitly (though usually unintentionally) attributing all disaster, suffering and death to the hand of God. But God is good. We need, therefore, to accept that there is an element of chance in the way things turn out.” Michael Lloyd

I have to say that reading that summed up my confusion quite accurately. How much of what 'happens' in this world is attributable to God? Is God behind everything? Certainly he knows about everything, but how much of it happens because God made it so? Rather than looking at the situation of someone getting cancer, lets turn it round and say that there are two people already with cancer, (or whatever - put any situation you want in the place of cancer here!), both of whom have people around them praying for their healing. Say one person dies, and one recovers, well, the friends of the one who recovered would most likely thank God for answers to prayer, attributing the healing to God. But what about the one who died? Why did God not answer that prayer? Or rather, why was His answer to that one 'no'? Could it not just be that the treatment worked on one and not the other? How do we know that God was involved at all? Are we sure that this is not, in actual fact, attributable to chance rather than God? If so, how then can we know when it is God that does something in our lives and when is it chance? When do we pray for something, or say thankyou for something?

On the other hand, God could be absolutely in charge of everything - chance could be non-existant. Certainly there would be concerns here, (such as why is there suffering, why do some people suffer and not others etc), but surely a God who is in control of everything, (and also totally loving by the way), would have reasons for all these things. We may not know why now, but as long as God does, that's what matters.

Which one is it? Do we even need to know? I am toying with the thought that maybe, just maybe, this is supposed to be a bit ambiguous. Maybe we are supposed to not really know exactly how much control God chooses to exert over the world in which we live. Would us knowing actually make any difference to the way we live? Surely, even if God does leave some things to chance, we can still pray about it, and trust that God knows which situations to take control of and which not to? It would help to know, (and maybe some people think that they do know the answer to this - maybe I am just a bit thick!), but I guess that its part of our responsibility to just trust despite the fact that things seems confusing. Its a case of choosing to trust despite the ambiguity.

We are truly blessed to be able to have a God who is worthy of our trust. He is so good, so holy, so upright, so loving and so just that we can trust Him to know how to deal with our world. We can give all our situations to Him and know that by just putting faith in God, all things will work out for good, (whether it seems like it in this life or not). Thanks God for being so wonderful, so so totally trustworthy. I choose right now to trust you with this world - to trust that regardless of my uncertainties, and misunderstanding, You in fact know what You are doing. Thanks, and please help me to leave it there, knowing that it is in Your hands.

5 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hmm...first time I've read a blog in months but just a quick response in among flying around like a fast flying thing. Read Job!! can't remember exactly what you wrote but at somepoint htought this was relevant in my reading - with regards to Job's suffering he had no idea what was going on or why - he didn't have the added bonus of reading the first chapter, and he never found out either!! but God's response wasn't to say well done your great and that's why the devil wanted to get at you or even give him any reason why he allowed the devil to do all that he responded by asking Job who he was to question God or his ways. Read the last few chapters - an awesome reminder of just who God is and just why we don't get it all, and why we never will - not that it's a bad thing to try. I know that won't be what you want to hear miss I-have-to-figure-out-absolutely-everything-becoz-I'm-a-mathematician-cafful but 'Do you know when the mountain goats give birth? Do you watch when the doe bears her fawn?' and I'll leave you to find where that one came from. ;o)
Now have spent far too long typing and need to dash but sorry havent been in touch much recently - things a bit hectic! works not bad - rota still up in air as someone quit already!!!!! Will be in touch sometime soon but keep chasing me coz seem to always read messages etc and never quite have time to chase them.
Jen!
x x x

Anonymous said...

I wasn't entirely sure to comment on this post because you said a lovely prayer at the end which made me think you want to leave this matter with God and just trust him. But then I thought that you don't have to read comments if you don't want to, so don't read this if you just want to leave the matter with God, as I will probably confuse you even more. Also, you made some comment that perhaps some people think they know the answer to this sort of thing. I just want to say by writing I do not think I know the answer in any way, these are just my thoughts and my interpretation of the Bible. (Oh and as for the length - I've decided my comments only look long because of the way the comments page lays them out!!!)

Anyway, what I'm going to write is based on a number of verses in the Bible like this one, "In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will" (Eph 1v11).

I have to say I don't agree with the Michael Llyod quote. I believe that the Bible, from beginning to end, firmly supports the sovereignty of God in all things.I'm not going to say much more about that cos it it's a massive topic. But I think that Jen's reference to Job is helpful. The story of Job has to be just about the most helpful part of the Bible to enable us to attempt to understand these things (although - when will we ever understand these things and how God works?!). God was clearly in control of everything that Job went through - but that is not saying it was down to Him. SO we can say that things do not happen by chance, without attributing everything to God. Satan was the one who inflicted the suffering on Job. However, remember that in ch 1 of Job we see Satan having to go before God with the other angels to give an account of himself. There he asks God for permission to inflict suffering on Job. He knew that God has sovereign authority. If GOd had said 'no' to Satan, then Satan would not have had any power or authority to do what he did. God may not directly cause our illnesses, accidents and so on - perhaps we have a genetic malfuntion that means we develop a particular disorder. It is the faulty gene that causes it, but the Bible tells us that all of creation is under God's control. So although I am not saying that our genes have to literally go and ask permission of God to let a disorder develop(!), I think that the account of Job enables us to see that everything is under God's control and authority - even genetics, accidents etc - and part of God's plan for us individually. Also, we are scientific beings who like to have scientific reasons for eveything. We have discovered the part that genetics and bacteria and many other things play in sickness and so on. But we do not know what is going on behind the scenes, behind the genes (ha - do you like my rhyme?!!), in the heavenly realms, just as Job never knew what what going on in the heavenly realms that led to his suffering. Who can know the mind of our Almighty God? Read Job 38, 39, 40, 41 and 42 - amazing verses where God really puts Job (and us) in his place. This leads Job to answer, "I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted...surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to do" (Job 42:2,2). I guess that is what we are doing - speaking of things that we don't know and that are too wonderful for us to know. Maybe it's easier to believe in chance becasue as soon as we view GOd as completely sovereign in everything it does raise many difficult questions, such as the one that Michael Llyod raised about suffering coming from God, and the ones you have raised. But I don't think the Bible supports the view that some things are down to chance, and maybe we just need to learn a few lessons from Job, that God is far bigger than us, and some things are too wonderful for us to know.

Think about it in this way - I do not believe it was chance that my Dad had a heart attack. He was a child of God and his death meant he went to be with God in the place that God had prepared for him. I don't think God is taken by surprise when one of His children gets ill and it looks like they are going to die. I don't think He starts to see how He can intervene and work out that situation for good. The Bible says our days are numbered and God is preparing a place for us in Heaven. Surely then, GOd is working out His plan in each of us, down to the day of our death and how that will come about. I can't believe these things come about by chance.


Take care
xx

6:23 PM

Unknown said...

Job is a great book of the Bible. I really think it is so helpful when it comes to these massive questions. You are both so right, we can never claim to understand God, and these things are too wonderful for us to get. I have decided that Job is going to be the next book I read in my times with God.

I think my questions stem from the fact not understanding why some prayers seem to be left unanswered. I know that the answer could be no or wait, and I do accept God's authority on that one, He will only do what is best, I guess I just need to be sure that He is in control of those things. I guess I sometimes just get scared that I might be asking for things, and God might be actually not getting involved in that because they are things that he doesn't need or choose to exert His authority over. I guess it just got to the point where I was saying, "Is there any point in even asking?" because I didn't know whather he would choose to be involved.

thesamesky said...

I think it is always right to ask, (part of prayer is the building of relationship) as long as we do it with the attitude of Jesus at gethsemene - "if it is your will".

Recently I read a book that challenged me on this. The guy said that when his brother died, he prayed that God would use the suffering to make him a better person. But then he realised that this was wrong, because he was asking God to make the suffering seem worthwhile to him. He was asking God to make sense of it for him by making something good out of it. Not in itself a bad thing, but he needed to be able to trust God through suffering whatever the outcome - to say ok God, I'm suffering, but YOU ARE STILL GOOD.

Unknown said...

Rach, if you happen to re-read this comment section, vould you let me know what book that was? I liked that summary - the idea of asking God to make sense out of it in order for it to appear good. I would like to understand this a bit more.

Thanks