Ok, I have been thinking about my next blog topic for some time, and have so many topics I would like to write about, its too difficult to pick just one. I have decided to start with prayer, but there is likely to be a post very soon regarding 'responsibility'. Keep your eyes peeled! Also, I am going to put a disclaimer on this one, (sorry Liz). There are no specifics here, I am talking about the general concepts of faith and responsibility and trying to cover some of the questions that people in general would ask – not just me.
Lat night the subject was 'How and Why do we Pray?' Prayer is such a massively confusing subject, and is also a subject which cannot not be personal. I would say it would be very difficult to be analytical about prayer, without it affecting you or touching you in some way. We all have our questions, and most likely we all have 'good Christian answers' to most of those questions too. But sometimes, they just don't satisfy…
I am going to hone in on a very specific part of the topic, and that is why we don't always get what we pray for. I am starting from the following Bible verse:
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! Matthew 7:7-11
Ok, I know that there are various answers to this one such as, this is about God giving us the Spirit rather than just general 'good gifts' but at the end of the day, sometimes we ask God for things which are 'good gifts' and yet we don't get them. Why? In the meeting Richard mentioned three possible explanations
- Wrong motive
- Wrong timing
- Its not actually good for us / It is not in God's will
I tentatively add a few more
- Lack of persistence
- Lack of faith
- We are disobedient
I will go through each of these in turn (in reverse order):
We are disobedient
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 1 John 3:21-23
I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. John 15:5-7
Then you returned and wept before the Lord, but he refused to listen. Deuteronomy 1:45
This can be a difficult theology for us because we believe in a God of mercy and forgiveness. But He is also just, and if we are consciously disobeying God and then asking Him for blessings, it seems a bit strange that we would expect Him to answer. However, when we look at this theology with the understanding that we are all sinners, and all disobey God from time to time, I have to see that this cannot always be true. (Else we would never get answered prayer!) So to what extent is this true? How disobedient do we have to be before God says – 'no, obey me and then try again?'
Lack of Faith
Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer." Matthew 21:21-22This is a really heavy one as it can lead to an immense amount of guilt on our part. I have to ask, how often do we ever have enough faith to move mountains? If anyone is like me, I find praying in faith that the thing I am praying for will happen really difficult mainly because so often it doesn't. I know this is for a variety of reasons but the point remains. Praying in faith is hard because it may not happen in the way you expect. So we are always praying with a certain degree of uncertainty in terms of how that prayer will be answered.
Lack of Persistence
The judge ignored her for a while, but finally he said to himself, 'I don't fear God or care about people, 5 but this woman is driving me crazy. I'm going to see that she gets justice, because she is wearing me out with her constant requests!'" Luke 18:3-5
Ok, this may be more about crying out for justice than other things, but still, it is often said that persistence in praying brings answers. I don't know why this is – maybe its to show Him how much we want it. But I don't know about the theology of saying that not getting something we have prayed for is because of a lack of persistence. Does anyone know?
Not in God's Will & its not the best thing for us
He withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. Luke 22:41-43
This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD : "Go down to the potter's house, and there I will give you my message." So I went down to the potter's house, and I saw him working at the wheel. But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him. Then the word of the LORD came to me: "O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter does?" declares the LORD. "Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. Jeremiah 18:1-6
Are these two interchangeable? Is God's will always the best for us? It certainly doesn't always feel like it! Sometimes it feels like God's will for our lives is not necessarily the thing that will make us happiest in this life but rather the things that are best for His own Kingdom. I realise that these two, in an ideal world, should be one and the same thing, but we are human and selfish, and sometimes we want things that aren't in God's will.
I totally agree that God knows way better than we do what is best for us. So if he chooses not to give us the 'good gifts' that we ask for, maybe that is because it is not the 'best gifts' for us. Or maybe its because the things that are 'best for us' are not in line with His will. I know this seems a little heretical! Saying that God's will is not best for us, and I guess in the eternal perspective, it is, but from the perspective of living in the world we currently live in, I honestly think that sometimes He calls us into things which will not make us 'the happiest we can be' while we are here. Am I wrong?
Wrong Timing
I waited patiently for the Lord to help me,
and he turned to me and heard my cry. Psalm 40:1
Sometimes God says, 'wait'. I don't really have much else to say about this at this point, its relatively simple!
Wrong Motive
What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you? You want something but don't get it. You kill and covet, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have, because you do not ask God. When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. Or do you think Scripture says without reason that the spirit he caused to live in us envies intensely? James 4:1-3
This is the main one I have been thinking about. I truly don't get how this works. We are told to talk to God, to be honest with Him. To share with Him our concerns, fear and desires. We live in a fallen world, and as such many of our desires are actually 'wordly' and therefore adulterous. If God says 'no' to our requests because they are requested with a wrong motive, then surely we ought to be trying to change our desires to be less worldly, rather than actually asking him to fulfil those desires? Does that make sense? I was reading back through some previous blog entries the other day, and came across something I wrote ages ago which sums it up quite well. (Funny how things seem to go round full circle):
"When I pray or speak to God, is it right that I should bring to Him all my concerns, hopes and desires, asking Him to bless me, when the focus is so heavily on me. Will God answer those prayers? Does He even care about them - except where they relate to the growth of His Kingdom and my role in that. I think that is the crux of it for me. Does God care about the things of "life", that I really care about unless these are the very things that themselves have an impact on His Kingdom. In other words, should I be asking Him for the things that I really really want, even though they are worldly desires which show that I am still attached to (and to some extent - love), this world, and probably have no bearing on His Kingdom.
Deep down I know that God is a God that gets involved in the lives of us as individuals. He is involved in my life. And yet, I just don't really get how. I don't really get why He seems to answer some prayers and not others, whether I am allowed to ask Him for the things I want, or whether I should instead be striving to not care about them any more."
Mel made a really good comment about this at the time, which says:
"In some ways it is inevitable that we will seek worldly things to an extent in that we are always being tempted by that around us, being fallen humans. But the important thing is that God knows our NEEDS and even if there are things that are not perhaps vital (this includes things day-to-day material things and spans to bigger things like relationships), he promises to provide what it is that we need and therefore it is a challenge to be content with what we have, but still praying for the desires of our heart and in God's time, he provides and in His way, decides what it superfluous to those needs and is something we have to work with."
I thought that was brilliant, and yet, aren't we still faced with a dilemma; a strong desire for something which God doesn't seem to be meeting in spite of our requests? What if that desire is so strong you simply cannot be content with what we have? Is that back to selfishness? How do we stop it being all consuming?
Summary
On top all all of those questions, there is a further question: If we are faced with a situation where we have been praying for something and it is not happening, how do we know which of the above it is down to? Certainly some can be ruled out – if you are consciously disobeying God, then stop disobeying and try again and if you have only prayed it once, keep trying. Other than that, how do you know? It could be God saying wait, or it could be God saying, 'stop asking your motive is wrong', or it could be God saying, 'keep asking, I want to know how much you want it,' or 'You don't truly believe that you will receive this so until you do, I am going to hold off', or 'actually, this is not the best thing for you. I have a different plan'. Each one of those reasons may require a different response from us some of which could be contradictory e.g. keep praying, stop praying and change your motivation, wait, etc. How do we know which one to do?
10 comments:
Hey - fantastic post! I have a few ideas to bounce, not sure how helpful they will be but lets see.
Firstly, in terms of disobedience, I think our disobedience affects God answering out prayers when we continue to disobey God on a specific point that the Spirit has highlighted that we need to change. Obviously we are always doing things wrong, but it seems to me when we are persistantly and consiously continuing to disobey God in a matter he has brought to our attention then this can be a real block to prayer.
In terms of the faith thing - I don't really agree with the whole 'you haven't got enough faith thing' - this isn't what Jesus was getting at. It isn't a matter of 'how much faith do you have today' but a matter of if you are a Christian then you have that faith, and that is enough (as long as all the other things are in place then there should be no barrier to your prayers being answered here - i.e. you could move a mountain if it was God's will to!)
Don't know about the persistence thing apart from maybe God likes us to show how serious we are about him and about his purposes by continuing to pray persistently about something.
I agree with you - on this earth sometimes we are called to great suffering. I think the idea is that in the end this suffering is worthwhile, but that sometimes that doesn't happen until we get to heaven. I read a challenging book where the author prayed to God to make the suffering he was going through having lost his brother in a plane crash worthwhile by using it to make him a holier person, more like Christ. A worthwhile prayer - but it wasn't answered and he realised he was praying for selfish reasons - he wanted the crash to make sense, for it to be worth something. This was more important to him than becoming holy.
I think it sometime depends on where we are at. Someone might pray that and get it answered even with the same motives, because God is teaching them in a different area of their lives at that point. As we grow he highlights different attitudes to change, maybe using this prayer block thing is one way he can demonstate a need to change. ok that kinda touched on the last one as well.
As for your final question, how do we know which? I think the answer is to prayerfully consider and ask the Holy Spirit to show us, show us if we are being disobedient, or where wrong motives might be hiding etc, to guide us in praying how Jesus would pray.
Hope you are well!!
xx
While I am reading Yancey's book - 'Prayer, does it make any difference?' I am jotting down every example of 'Prayer is...' that he mentions. My motivation is, at some point then, to go back and check off the ones that raise interest my further and explore them in some way.
The one that catches my attention at the moment, as I flick through in response to this posting is - Prayer lets God be God.
When will we ever have the capcity to begin to understand what God's plan is? Yes, we know that he wants what is best for us in terms of that bigger picture and yes there are times when it really doesn't feel to us as if it is the best thing - for US, so that's when we have to 'climb down from our executive chair of control,and uncreate the world we have so carefully fashioned to further our ends and advance our cause'
Yancey suggests that the first step of prayer is to acknowledge God, restore the truth of the universe.
My main worry and I think worry is not too frantic a word, is that when it comes to prayer I struggle - to find the time, to find the words, to ponder the truths, to really seek God's heart, to go further than just hardly scratching the surface. I desire to pray, but it never feels as if I've fulfilled that desire, ( It's about ME again!)and so when I read that prayer is an expression of who we are - I don't feel too good!!....but I'm ok:)
Liz, I know what you mean. In general I find it helpful to write down my prayers. It stops me from getting too distracted and falling asleep! but actually, when I do that, I feel like I am not being that personal with God. It ends up feeling more like a process than a relationship. I liked that book, but have to say, I don't think it changed the way I pray at all. Maybe I need to re-read it at some time.
Rach, thanks for your helpful comments. That prayer you talk about, about the making the crash make sense thing I have read somewhere before. Maybe it was on my blog at some point, or maybe I read that book too! I can't remember, but I do see that point.
I think I sometimes worry that all of these 'reasons' for unanswered prayer can be used to excuse God for not answering. You know, if someoone was trying to tell us that answers to prayer were coincidences then they would have a lot of amunition with all the prayers that don't appear to be answered.
I know that sounds awful - but I do get concerned that we make sure we are real as Christians - not trying to cover up or explain away the contradictions or things we don't understand, and yet I have to concede that there must be an answer to all this stuff. Maybe with me its just that fighting against all of these reasons, and finding ways to make them difficult is easier than having to accept the consequeces of the truth behind all those reasons. i.e. if my prayers aren't being answered how I want, it is my responsibility to deal with it, accept it or change my attitude, it is not God's responsibility to do what I want.
Why is that so hard?
I will talk about this in my next post - responsibility. I find that a very interesting topic!
hey m8, i am in the middle of a blog about prayer aswell lol but u seemed to have covered the majority of it in here, so thanks :-)
i think that some of the reason people dont fully trust that they will recieve is because we know there is a chance that we wont so it comes down to trying to protect ourselfs again, that we know we might not get what we are asking for so we don't get our hopes up incase the answer is no and well be feel disapointed?? i know thats backwards because it could end up being the reason we wont recieve what we want!
One thing I try to remember in prayer -- "Not my will, but Thy will be done." So I do often say, "if it is Thy will" when I pray because frankly, as the scriptures say, I don't know how to pray as I should. Fortunately, Christ makes intersession for my sorry butt because my prayers outside of Christ would send me to hell.
Hi astronerdboy! Thanks for commenting, it is always nice to hear others viewpoints. Can I ask though, what do you mean by 'outside of Christ my prayers would send me to hell'? Can you elaborate?
I agree, its amazing that we have Christ as an intercessor. I love Romans 8:26 which says, "In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express."
I read something in a book tonight and it was so relevant, I couldn't not quote it, so here it is:
"You may wonder at offering God prayer that seems to trivial - even selfish. However, nothing kills prayer faster than when I pretend in prayer to be more noble than I really am. Dallas Willard sees this;
'Prayer simply dies from efforts to pray about good things that honestly don't matter to us. The way we get to meaningful prayer for those good things is to start by praying for what we are truly interested in. The circles of our interest will inevitably grow in the largeness of God's love...Many people have found prayer impossible because they thought they should only pray for wonderful but remote needs they actually had little or no interest in or knowledge of.'
Simple prayer is the most common prayer in Scripture. Jesus himself teaches it when He tells us to pray for our daily bread. Sometimes it looks amazingly non-spiritual...there is a truly remarkable example when Elijah prays to complain about a group of youths calling him a 'baldy'! (Take a look at 2 Kings 2:24)...Of course I would like to grow so that my concerns become increasingly less selfish. But prayer - like any other relationship - must begin in honesty if it is to grow. C.S Lewis wrote that in prayer we must 'lay before Him what is in us, not what ought to be in us' John Ortberg - The Life You've Always Wanted
Sorry to comment so much on my own blog - but I have re-read the quote I added last night, and suddenly realise that whilst it sounds really nice, I am not sure I completely agree. Will our 'circles of interest' inevitably grow? Surely this is not entirely natural, surely it is possible to stay only ever praying those same 'simple prayers' about ourselves and our own circumstances unless we actually make an effort ourselves to get more knowledge about the 'good things'? To put it more simply, surely we have a part to play in the growth of our circles of interest? If not, why do some people only ever pray simple prayers? Is it really 'inevitable?
I wonder if maybe it means that while we are praying about the things that 'interest us' and becoming more aware of GOd's intervention in those things, that He will use our increased awareness of Him to draw our attention to other things which may be slightly outside our circle of interested, but connected none the less. Hence our circle gets bigger?
Yeah, maybe. I was just worried that it was leaving out the element of our own responsibility - sort of saying I can be selfish in my prayers until God makes me be something else. I know that isn't what he meant, but I just was concerned that was the impression that it might give.
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